Catholicism vs Trekism
I attended big school orientation day the other day. I made friends with my son’s best friend’s dad and spent time remembering my old school days.
The bright sunny day started by dropping the mini men at their pre-school where a teacher squealed that I have to be the Meyer boys’ dad, you are all so alike, that chin!
I enjoyed a rare quiet coffee with my ex and we reminisced about our little boys together. We arrived at school in our work suits, chinwagged to teachers and were escorted around the school by some Year Six kids.
I couldn’t help myself and asked where the detention room was, much to their giggling response.脗聽 In true Catholic form, it’s in a cold, wet corridor outside the offices.脗聽 Perfect for a cold winter’s day contemplative punishment.
I decided on the spot I would have to become the director of the P&F Committee so I could get involved and help design the new library extension-娄 plus the working bees-娄 I’m alive!
The Year Six floppy-haired tour guides proudly showed us their Reflection Garden, where some beautiful work had lovingly produced a quiet garden with twelve Aboriginal art pieces enacting the Stations of the Cross.脗聽 I was touched by its uniqueness.
The deal was sealed when I learned the retiring priest who still made visits to the school was the same Father who had baptised my wife, married us, and had subsequently baptised my eldest.
My mother was most pleased.脗聽 Being an ex-Catholic nun from the 1960s (you can imagine the prized look on her face when I had that conversation a few years ago) her values today are similar to mine -鈥� inner peace and living in the moment are the key and perhaps a little faith these days would help kids find their way.
I sat in the second row, almost hand-over-mouth, aghast when during the presentation, a group of Grade Three kids marched out (yep, Sound of Music again) with a whistle and belted out their anthem about being aware of your behaviours and how when you are bad, you will be punished.脗聽 You really have to give it to us Catholics, we can’t help beating ourselves up.
What about teaching our children the concept that choice and consequence is the difference between right and wrong?脗聽 How about forgiveness and humility instead of reprimand and egoism?
Perhaps the脗聽 humanistic ideals in Star Trek (I couldn’t be any more of a minority) of faith, hope, love, honour, equality and respect is what we should be teaching our kids.
In lunch-time movie sessions, the kids could learn compassion and that an ideal world to live in is where Russians and Americans work alongside Asians and crazy Scots to save the world they love as well as occasionally blow up some nasty tattooed Romulans when they don’t comply.
Team work, race equality and because all the men on the flight deck are hot, homosexuality has to be in.脗聽 The Doctor and Kirk are a hot item -鈥� at least in my mind.
Resistance is futile-娄
Its true. Your cynicism is not unfounded Phil. I have been enjoying your work in all its formats for probably more than 15 years now – the novels, the shows, the short stories and the column. I think you have an entertaining, relevant and invaluable voice for gay Australia. I always like to hear what you have to say and for the mojor part agree with you. I also think Meyer should read debates such as this when he has written his column. I would think very hard (if I had kids) before I sent them anywhere where regular religion lessons were compulsory.
Having said this, as a gay man I am often frustrated / sometimes amused by the stereotypes that we have created for ourselves. Im sure the many Catholic priests who are not pedophiles and child molesters probably feel the same way about their stereotypes.
I also believe that regardless of which school your kids are sent to there is a degree of re-educating them that needs to happen at home, so they can get a perception of what the parents believe as well as what the school is teaching. Then when they get old enough to make decisions for themselves they are more informed.
Yes. We need to think long and hard about educating our youth. Clearly the value of the religion taught at the school is something that John has been thinking about (Catholism vs Trekism is the name of the column. A pretty clear indication I would say.) He probably didn’t make his decisions lightly. And I totally agree with the John who commented (as opposed to the John who wrote the column), the most important issue is supporting John and his parenting decisions.
I am a catholic myself, infact a practising one. My gay friend said once, that being gay in the eyes of the church is going to get me to hell. Well being a catholic to me is not Judging , loving and about unconditional love. What one chooses to do sexually , is purely up to them, I cannot judge or make one feel they are going to hell because they are gay, I am not God. Our God is a loving and forgiving God, provided we have faith in him, so whether we are gay or not we cannot judge what God sees as sin. We must try to live a life of peace , love ,respect and honour with faith as a core and when we have that we become better people. We must ignore evil, we cannot judge or impose our beliefs on other people, but try to live by the word of Christ.
I did go on to tell my gay friend , that it was hard to accept the concept of being Gay as I grew up differently, but my faith in God allowed me to put hatred aside and love respect the individual for who he is and put aside what ever difference in opinion we have , so what ever he chooses to do in his own private life, whether I like it or not is not my issue. I spend time with the beatiful person he is and this time I love and cherish.
I am saddened though that catholism always get slammed about not accepting Gays, whatever happen to all the other religions that are not accepting ……….. I really wish they would address them as well.
My cynicism is not unfounded, Peter, as I’m sure you would have to agree. But I concentrated on one aspect of why a parent would or wouldn’t send his kids to a particular school. There are many other things to be weighed up in that decision- as Sam mentioned.
Personally, I wouldn’t want my kids to be taught too much religion of any kind. That’s not cynicism, it’s actually a statement of my strong belief in the superiority of rationality.
I think the most important issue here is supporting John and his parenting decisions. All schools have issues, and ultimately its about parenting, supporting kids and communities being involved in the education process. I think this discussion is more based on religion and its inconsistencies than the private / public sector.
As a gay dad myself, you have to face major challenges in the school environment, such as dealing with homophobic parents, the “how can you have children?” comments and knowing that your small child could also be the victim of homophobia.
My kids go to a public primary school, and bless one of the teachers there, who teaches about who is ‘important to you’ not ‘a family consists of a mum and a dad’. She is rare, but we need to support schools and teachers. Johns presence in a school is priceless and i hope other gay dads tell their teachers that they are gay as well. Im not sure if there are many out there, and only a few are visible.
I could also go on about how some gay men are negative towards gay dads, but i will wait for that article…
Peter, I think you make a very good point and a very good argument here… I will also say Andrew also makes a good point in his second post with more insight.. but I will say Tasmania, is still living in the early 1900’s and most know that it is generally hobophobic and there are legal issues there concerning “gender preference”.
I agree David about your statement, and about parents paying out their noses for this education, education alone is another debate and me personally having gone to a Catholic school myself and having my parents falling behind in house payments… I can relate and do understand and often questioned my parents… why would they send me here if they couldn’t afford it? But we “got by”.
Alot of people I went to primary school with that ended up at a state school ended up pregnant by the age of 16… please note I am not saying all that go through the public education system end up in this particular situation, but in my case, maybe I can’t quite put my finger on it, but it felt like I was being “cared for” at the catholic school I attended, but yes the fees were quite ridiculous for a working class type family.
But definitely a good point.
I also have to point out that John Meyer’s mother was a nun in the 60’s as he wrote, so there is also some connection to a catholic school upbringing that I’m sure would be deeper connected with maybe his mothers wishes would you not think? and if not perhaps familiarity? In any case, John I need to say I really do like how you always round off your story, getting back to the real issue every week. The fact that you are a gay father and you are doing your darndest to educate your children that you love very dearly and after reading your articles weekly, don’t doubt you are educating them on how to be a very open minded and loving indivuals. Thank you all. Great forum and great debate. All the best John.
I would like to point out that we know nothing about this school, other than a few brief comments that the author has included for the sake of an interesting column.
I am one of five children who was sent to an expensive private Catholic school.
My older brother was miserable at the school and in senior high, my parents transferred him from the private school to a public school where he was equally as unhappy. After he graduated he worked in a non-academic trade profession and he is now a teacher himself.
I thrived in the Catholic school upbringing. I took art, music and drama from years 8-12 and I saw “Dirty Dancing” at the cinema 17 times with some of the other boys who were in my humanities classes. I also had my first sexual encounter with one of these boys. To this day (I am 35) I remain friends with my old drama teacher. I am pretty sure the music teacher who spent more than 10 years at this school was a gay man. When the other students were participating in the weekend sports programs, I was rehearsing for the school play. Never once did an “(inevitable???) gnarled hand slip up the inside of my leg” and there have been no reports from any of the other students who attended this school that anything of the sort happened to them. Although I may have once or twice fantasised about some of the younger priests and brothers trying it on. You are an old cynic Phil Scott.
When it came time to make decisions about my youngest brothers education, my parents were disillusioned by the schooling system and home-schooled him. When he matriculated he topped the Northern Territory with his HSC score.
The school playground and the classroom is a breeding ground of discrimination of all kinds – rascism, sexism, homophobia, bullying. This is regardless of whether you go to a public or a private school. I doubt John Meyer’s children will grow up homophobic or expelled because they attend a private Catholic school. In fact they may (or may not) make a difference for some of their less educated school friends with more conservative upbringings.
Every school has different problems, and when it comes to educating your children they are very important problems to be considered. There was a high suicide rate at the public school across the road from the one I attended. When choosing a school there are a number of factors that need to be considered and the parent must then weigh up the combination of the talents and abilities of their child with the advantages and disadvantages of the school. When two parents who are no longer a couple are involved the dillema becomes harder.Ultimately parents want what will be best for their child. These years are some of the most important in a persons life. Howm many people can still remember the full name of their favourite teacher? Or the person who bullied them in the Playground.
If the author has a long history of friendship with someone respected on the staff of this school then chances are he made the right decision about where to send his kids.
I often wonder why parents send their children to private schools given there are perfectly good public schools around that don’t costs thousands of dollars a year per student and are not allowed to exclude children who are gay (or have disabilities for that matter). One theory is the prestige parents get by being able to say they send their offspring to a private school – even if the payments on their house are falling behind and the bank manager is knocking on the door.
I’m sure you’re right Andrew but I would have thought any gay person brought up in a Catholic school would want the exact opposite for their own kids if they have any. Although I personally only attended state schools, I loathed sport on weekends and I still do.
I know I’m an old cynic, but I wonder how ‘genuinely shocked’ those parents really are when they find out students can be expelled for being gay. I’m sure they pay lip service but underneath think it’s not a bad thing, or at the very least think it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t affect their own kids. Private schools are primarily about ‘making the right connections’, parental snobbery and oneupmanship, not much else. When I was young they got no government funding whatsoever, and it has always puzzled me- and annoyed me as a taxpayer- that that logical situation ever changed.
I wouldn’t go quite that far Phil, I think the majority of heterosexual parents who send their kids to Catholic schools aren’t homophobic and aren’t sending their kids there to segregate them from gay people- it’s more that they want their kids to go through the same private school experience that they did growing up, with a focus on sports the weekends, and want to be part of a wider private school community- something that doesn’t really exist at public schools. It’s the Church leaders who are keeping their claws on the power to discriminate, and unfortunately, churches aren’t run on democratic lines. My experience is that most private school parents don’t even know that gay students can legally be expelled in 2009 and are genuinely shocked when they find out. The schools that do it tend not to shout it from the roof tops- in fact if I remember correctly, not too long ago religious schools in Tasmania squirmed their way out of an amendment which would have forced them to publish and post any discriminatory policies on their websites. This is an area where we really need to work harder to educate the general public.
I’m inclined to agree with Andrew. How could a gay father go to school functions with everyone standing around hating the sin but loving the sinner? I believe in having the courage of your convictions, but you can’t have two sets of convictions that oppose each other. “Inner peace and living in the moment” is all well and good, but isn’t it just turing a blind eye to the problem of officially sanctioned discrimination? How does a gay dad explain to his kids that their favourite teacher was dismissed for being gay? How does he deal with the inevitable moment when Father X slides his gnarled old hand up the boy’s inside leg? I’d be keeping my kids well away from that quagmire, it’s not worth the damage control.
Sorry, I’m all for gay Christians remaining a part of their faith communities, but I find it odd that a gay man would willingly choose to send his kids to a school that can by law sack and refuse to hire gay staff and expel gay students.