Comments on: Civil unions won’t change anything

By: Si

Si — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 06:59:00 +0000

We are constantly asked by our (mostly) straight friends what our feelings are about the possible legalisation of gay marriage and whether we will “do it”. For us personally we don’t give a rats crap whether it’s made legal or not. It’s not going to change anything for us, emotionally, financially, physically or any other way. If it’s what others want then fine. We both have all the necessary legal documentation in place to protect each other if and when one predeceases the other and we consider ourselves just as equal in every way as all our straight married couple friends. We have a great fridge magnet that depicts two guys in suits under an altar. The caption reads, “Let gays marry so they can suffer like everyone else”. Enough said..

By: Brendan of Wollongong NSW

Brendan of Wollongong NSW — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 22:54:07 +0000

Michael (October 30, 2011 at 6:35 pm), you sure have a lot of “buts” (no pun). I just love how you say “relationships are more complex than this” after having spent much of your comment putting up carping negative generalisations about same sex marriage and what you (wrongly) assume is the intention of those who support it. A word of advice: instead of speaking in the royal “We”, try using the singular “I” to represent your own opinion, because you sure as fuck don’t represent mine or many of my friends. Relationships are indeed more complex *and* diverse, so why simplify people’s deepest feelings and aspirations to cheap shots? So tired of bitter anti-marriage gays whining about marriage equality as if it somehow infringed on their rights or sensibilities.

By: Michael (Brisbane)

Michael (Brisbane) — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 07:35:17 +0000

A world where its ok to be gay? James, get in the real world. We don’t need the approval of others to be who we are, but this obession for all us to get married is like social engineering. I really don’t care if you want a wedding and tons of kids. Good luck. But as long as this nonsense continues to get us to be ‘clean’ and ‘legitmate’ I won’t support the Qld Government. Its electioneering, well that’s the real world. I really don’t look forward to the day i’m told by my peers I have to be married, have kids and be monogamous, and if single being asked like we are by our hetrosexuals “why are you not married, what’s wrong with you?”. You want supporters to help you: don’t tell us what to do in the bedroom with our husbands (wife and husband should not be used anyway), don’t tells us we are ‘dirty’ because we are more likely to sleep with others and don’t tell us to march to this gay marriage agenda while you set the moral boundaries for how we should behave. There is more to marriage than human rights and ‘we love each other’. Frankly, all I see is gay men wanting the adventure and then it will sour. Relationships are more complex than this. So tired of your agendas and being told how to live, I don’t mind if you get your marriage or unions or whatever but want support, divorce (no pun) morality from marriage. We have enough moralists outside the community.

By: James Newburrie

James Newburrie — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 09:29:58 +0000

Hi Daniel,
During our discussion on Facebook you made it abundantly clear that
you are a hard-core member of rainbow labor, and are very very
left-of-centre.

This isn’t an ALP bill, if it were an ALP bill, and if it removed the
adoption rights restrictions here in Queensland, then the case for
electioneering would be harder.

Most of we LGBTIQs tend to be left-leaning, so I’m hardly surprised
that people find my political analysis uncomfortable :)

As for the law: I’m no lawyer, however at UQ I did study two law
subjects under Associate Professor Nick James who drilled that phrase
into us. But you also told us on Facebook how difficult it is to
prove a de facto relationship now. Surely civil union will make that
even harder.

My job isn’t to mindlessly support anyone, my job is to try and bring
about a world where it is ok to be gay, where there is no statutory
discrimination and where true equality reigns. As an ALP member your
focus is on retaining power for your party.

By: James Newburrie

James Newburrie — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 09:08:25 +0000

Hi Daniel,
During our discussion on Facebook you made it abundantly clear that you are a hard-core member of rainbow labor, and are very very left-of-centre. You also told us all about how difficult it is to prove a de facto relationship now. Surely civil union will make that even harder.

This isn’t an ALP bill, if it were an ALP bill, and if it removed the adoption rights restrictions here in Queensland, then the case for electioneering would be harder.

As for the law: I’m now lawyer, however at UQ I did study two law subjects under Associate Professor Nick James who drilled that phrase into us.

My job isn’t to mindlessly support anyone, my job is to try and bring about a world where it is ok to be gay, where there is no statutory discrimination and where true equality reigns. As an ALP member your focus is on retaining power for your party.

Most of we LGBTIQs tend to be left-leaning, so I’m hardly surprised that people find my political analysis uncomfortable :)

By: Andy

Andy — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 06:16:48 +0000

Gay marriage advocate weighing in here. Have to disagree Daniel, but don’t think I don’t like the cut of your jib!
It’s nobody’s job to be mindlessly in favor of any and all political tactics to a singular end. It isn’t, nor should it be, a requirement that all gays be of one mind on this matter in order to get marriage equality in Australia. If we are going to call it equality, then it is going to be done because that’s the kind of country we are. It won’t be dolled out like candy apples.

By: Daniel Richardson

Daniel Richardson — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 03:34:22 +0000

What rot!

The fact of the matter is that the Queensland Labor Party is doing everything it can for gay and lesbian couples in that state. This is the closest they can legally come to marriage equality, and they’re doing it.

Our job as gay activists is to support those who are supporting us.

This is a step closer to full equality, and if it passes the parliament, it will allow Queensland ALP delegates to go to Conference and say ‘look, we’ve got civil unions in Queensland and everyone’s fine with it’, allowing them to allay the fears of the more conservative delegates who think recognition of gay relationships will prompt the sky to fall down.

Instead, your equivocation on the issue allows groups like the ‘Australian Marriage Forum’ to publish videos like this one -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-SfABpGDFM- and claim that “The gay community hasn’t even made up its mind on marriage, so why should we change it?”.

On a slightly different note, your claim that there is some legal axiom along the lines of ‘if it is not explicitly included, it is implicitly excluded’ is swill. There’s no such doctrine. There are, however, doctrines of statutory interpretation which mandate that Acts are interpreted from a ‘purposive’ approach, keeping in mind the intention of the original Act. The doctrines of ejusdem generis and noscitur a sociis mean that the existence of a civil union could never endanger a couple’s de facto status, leaving aside that such a determination could never be made unless someone brought an action in court, at which point any judge would point out that the phrase ‘de facto couple’ is defined in Section 4AA of the Family Law Act 1975.

I think that’s where you’ll find it’s “explicitly included”.

When gay couples separate, or one member of a couple dies, and there is a dispute over the division of the property, a civil union might allow a court to establish serious sustained commitment to a ‘mutually shared life’ , something currently established by a marriage certificate, and allow it to divide property more fairly than it currently can. There are a host of serious legal issues of discrimination faced by gay couples that civil unions could go some way to fixing. Of course full equality would be better, and this brings us one step closer to it.

Finally, your criticism of Queensland Labor is incredibly unhelpful.

You think this is electioneering? You think they’re just trying to get re-elected?

Guess what -you’re right!

If more people would vote for them if they introduced civil unions, then they should introduce civil unions. That’s what governments do in a democracy. Additionally, it’s in all gay and lesbian Queenslanders’ interests that the ALP gets re-elected, because Campbell Newman has shown –as, staggeringly, you seem to be aware– that his party will vote as a bloc against any kind of equality for gays and lesbians.

The LNP deserve your criticism, not the ALP. It’s not the ALP who, when asked if they want to take a step toward equality, answered “no fucking way”, it’s the Liberals! The depths of homophobia in the Queensland Liberal Party are unfathomable; some of them think homosexuality can be “cured”! The idea that this issue somehow ‘wedges’ them is laughable.

My point is this: stop criticising our supporters, and start helping them. Get on board the struggle toward equality, even if it means taking it one step at a time.