Comments on: Keneally: love us or hate us?

By: taxpayer

taxpayer — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:56:47 +0000

Is Kenally gay and keeping it hidden like David Campbell.
She supports everything the Gay community wants and everthing Clover, Firth and Gillard want. Strong support of building Catholic Schools anywhere ever with all the sexual abuse and gay carrings on. Has no time for Hillsong or Islamic Schools. Encourages the people of Camden and Bass Hill to be racist.

By: Ed ( A child is not a pet)

Ed ( A child is not a pet) — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:25:54 +0000

Hi Dave, it’s clear to me that you are genuinely concerned about these children and not just adoption for the sake of attaining equal gay rights on this particular matter, and this is admirable. You have highlighted some interesting points that has made me think further about this gay adoption issue. I am very familiar and have respect for the method of “Science” you mentioned and given that you are intelligent i don’t need to explain to you that when it comes to studies(particularly with regards to psychology), the conclusions are only as good as the scope of the studies and consideration needs to be placed on assumptions made and the limitations that are present. But in light of the research i have seen along with what you have pointed out in your comments, i think there are good reasons to think that you may be right that adoption for gay couples should be allowed with regards to foster children. However my problem still strongly lies with surrogacy, as i think the reasons i have given in my previous post applies strongly in this case. And this isn’t just about gay people i would feel the same way about single mothers who wanted a surrogate baby, or dysfunctional couples in general. As i said in my previous comment, when you consider the research done and when there is doubt about such an important issue, the burden of proof lies with the gay people wanting to adopt, and no such convincing proof exists. I think surrogacy laws have already been passed but more research should have been done before we allowed surrogacy for gay couples. Every baby should be entitled to a Mother and Father unless they find themselves in a unfortunate position of being a foster child, or also if the relationship of the child’s parents irretrievably breaks down and a single mother has to valiantly raise her child solo.

By: Pol

Pol — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 05:31:30 +0000

Seems its going to be the women who make change for us.

And its time those morons who think gay couples will raise gay children should wake up to their stupid selves.

Hello we are all raised by straight parents so why are we not straight ?

By: Dave

Dave — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 04:29:01 +0000

Mark and Ed,

I might add that your arguments are based on an if. But if we do nothing we condemn children with no parents to be moved from foster home to foster home, and from school to school. The Victorian Government just produced the results of an inquiry that showed the great damage this causes. That is not an if. It is the present situation.

The reality is not an if. Our reality is that children of Same-Sex couples grow up into well adjust right now as I write this. They have done so for many years, and in many country’s. The reality is also that not to act, can fill our hospitals with some young adults that are not well adjusted. The effects of institutions and foster homes can making adults who are not well adjusted we all know this truth.

If we can do no better then to deny children and teenagers a loving home because we are worried about, not the reality of what happens in Australia and many other country’s, but the if’s, then do not we have a hand in that abuse. I was brought up State run Homes and I assure any of the kids there would of given anything to have parents, even Sam-Sex parents, give them a loving home.

I cannot stand by and deny kids a loving home. I know better. I am better then that. We are ll better then that. We all cannot turn our heads and hide from the reality of orphaned children.

By: Ben

Ben — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 01:41:30 +0000

Chillisauce reckons those politicians who voted to support an equal age of consent were just trying to get pedophile priests and teachers off.

It’s an argument in lock-step with radio shock jocks who opposed an equal age of consent.

By: Dave

Dave — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 23:56:19 +0000

Ed-

Presently in Australia there is Gay and Lesbian Adoption, and thousands of Same-Sex couples, and single parents, that raise children everyday. There are also thousands of adults that have been raised by Same-Sex parents, or Single parents. It happens. It happens with success overall. And it even has the support of some religious groups. The proof I guess is in the thousands of well adjusted adults. They would be flooding hospitals if this was not the case with psychological problems. Knowing a few psychiatrist, and my partner being a Director of Medical Services, I can say this does not happen.

If there were great problems, then the Psychiatric and Psychological Associations would voice concern in a heart beat. Remember they act on science, often against the political will of the day. They would say there should be no Same-Sex adoption as it damages children long-term, if this was the case, it is not so they do not.

We want what is in the best interest of the child. I for one would never want to expose a child to harm. I can say that about the many couples I have known. They are not pets as you suggest!

I suggest you talk to the Foster Agencies that foster Children to Same-Sex Couples. I suggest you to talk to the Social Workers that adopt children out in DOCS and the ACT and other State Government Departments that allow Adoption for people who happen to be Gay or Lesbian.

I might add the reality is sometimes people who have children come out about their sexuality all the time. We are not proposing to remove these children. The government does not step in and take children away.

Mark- I put it to you that a lot of people might not put their children, even heterosexual parents, in schools that they think might not be good for their children. Same-Sex couples think like all other parents. They put children in schools they think will be best for the child.

I encourage you to do as I have asked Ed. Contact the specialist in the field. I think you both are well intended, but your ideas are not based on what is going on in Australia at present, and has been for many years in Australia and other countries. Your ideas are formed I think, by your own experience of schools and adolescence where some gay guy was picked on, or was seen as not the done thing. I could easily form the opinion Sydney people are racist nut heads if I only saw the riots a few years ago. I have experienced otherwise. I have though, seen girls coming forward as teenagers telling us they have all sorts of problems wearing a Berka. This is new to Australia. We have never heard of thousands of teenagers of Same-Sex parents coming forward with emotional problems, saying they are spat on or mistreated by schools. Children of Same-Sex parents is not new. I have found they do not have the issues with all this. Those on the front line of this have found the same.

By: Ed (A child is not a pet)

Ed (A child is not a pet) — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 23:23:25 +0000

Listen i don’t mean to insult anybody. But my interest here is with the children that are being adopted, I’m not much interested what a gay person does with their own lives, i sincerely wish them well. And yes I agree with the editors note that there are many people who are unfit to adopt children and this includes non gay couples also. It’s an unfortunate situation when single parents have to raise their kids solo, but that should only happen when there is no choice. You say i’m incorrect, but ive done my bit of research taken from the APA (American Psychological Association) and i quote: “relatively few studies
have focused on the offspring of lesbian or gay parents
during adolescence or adulthood.” “It should be acknowledged that research on lesbian
and gay parents and their children, though no
longer new, is still limited in extent.” “less is known about children
of gay fathers than about children of lesbian
mothers” Comes from here: (www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting.aspx). When there is doubt about such an important issue, the burden of proof lies with the gay people wanting to adopt, and no such convincing proof exists in my humble opinion. Much more research is required on this so called “universal agreement”.
There may be an argument that “gay women” couples should be able to adopt certain homeless children who have absolutely no hope in finding a mother and father, seeing that these children already find themselves in an unfortunate situation anyway, so its the lesser of two unfortunate situations.

By: chillisauce100

chillisauce100 — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 14:07:37 +0000

Reply to Ben;

Yes I am cynical about the motives that influence Labor Party Policy.

You used a parliamentary vote on altering the age of consent as an example of how, when parliamentarians are allowed to vote according to their conscience, positive changes can be made to the degrees of freedom available to citizens.

How I look at that particular change to legislation is that it was probably contrived to reduce the number of charges of child sexual assault brought against teachers and priests.

By: mark of sydney

mark of sydney — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 10:21:35 +0000

Ok,enough of the “My comment bashing” Please & John plz your going ofcourse.
Like I said it would be great for 2 same sex parents in Australia to love and raise a child (Especially 2 men) BUT the Zeolets in our community who scream that their out and proud “In Newtown Or Darlinghurst” ofcourse,Let them try holding hands in Parramatta,lets say Westfields, or Kiss in Blactown or Penrith High street,I give you 1 minute before an Homophobic Obscenity is screamed at you…
Stick the child of a same-sex couple in a Everyday school,Once the other kids find out,and I guarantee you that child will have a miserable schooling experience.
Kids can be cruel too you know.If you series about kids,why not sponsor one? The love and care is still there,thankyou

By: Gay Activist Paul Mitchell

Gay Activist Paul Mitchell — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 08:28:43 +0000

Also no forgetting the Wood Inquiry recommendations, that the age of consent for gay men should be inline at 16 with heterosexuals and lesbians – this much needed reform did not happen until 2003 No 9 (a full 6 years).

See Crimes Amendment (Sexual Offences) Act 2003 No 9 on the NSW legislation website.

Prior to 1977 there was no anti-discrimination legislation, which was recommended way back in 1970.

In 1976 the Law Reform Commission (chaired by Michael Kirby) proposed the Decrimalisation of male homosexuality. This reform was not achieved until 1984.

The NSW Legislation website now has the 1984 No 7 law shown on its website.

See Crimes (Amendment) Act 1984 No 7 on the NSW legislation website.

By: Gay Activist Paul Mitchell

Gay Activist Paul Mitchell — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 08:11:51 +0000

I welcome the news on same sex adoption rights – long overdue indeed!!!!

Back in 1997 (yes you heard correctly) the NSW Law Reform Commission proposed same sex adoption and relationship registers – why 13 years down the track these recommendation are finally getting implemented – when it should have happened in 1997???????

Oh and by the way I was 11 years old in 1997 and that is when I for the very first time acknowledged my sexual orientation.

By: Patti

Patti — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 07:30:55 +0000

In March 2011 the NSW LABOR GOVT will be Dead !!!

Cant wait!!!

By: DavidW

DavidW — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 06:41:56 +0000

She has gone out of her way to ban an official ceremony component in her new NSW Register. This is a backwards move, as the City of Sydney Register has had an official ceremony component since 2005. Why the push backwards by her to make us invisible even further???
btw: the City of Sydney one is still going, running concurrently- just do both.

By: Dave

Dave — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 04:23:53 +0000

Mark- I would like to add that some Same-Sex couples go to Church, some vote Liberal, some vote Labor. Some even vote Green. They do not all agree on Gay Marriage, they do not all agree on Global Warming, they can be wonderful friends or nasty bitches.

They are just like any other couple in the community. They come in all shapes, sizes, and colours. The difference is they are a Same-Sex couple, but really they are the same. The same hopes and desires like all couples.

By: Dave

Dave — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 03:51:54 +0000

Mark- Thank you for your question and for being polite.

I known many Same-Sex couples that have had children. I appreciate your concern for the child. It is actually a concern many Same-Sex couples have had to deal with.

What response the child gets at school depends on the school. What policies do they have, how the school is run. What support teachers have etc. These are the same questions heterosexual couples ask. Every parent wants what is best for child. We all have the same hopes for our children. We do not want them to be bullied or picked on. Sometimes this happens as we have seen with many heterosexual couples children. Remember it can be your race, or what shoes you wear, that decides your fate at school.

Many schools have children of Same-Sex couples with no problems at all. In fact I recall one couple telling me the other kids were really happy for their child having two Dad’s. They loved the idea. Good luck to them. I have also heard of parents being scared of the child that is an orphan. Telling their children to be careful, and the same goes for the child in foster care. It is as though they were not good enough to have anyone one love them. This is just terrible for the child.

Thousands of children have gone through school with Same-Sex couples with no problem at all. Having Same-Sex parents does not make them Gay. You might be surprised to learn I have seen very effeminate Dad’s with really butch teenage sons who are nothing like their Dad’s. I have also seen butch heterosexual Dad’s with a butch Gay son.

What is important is that the child has a loving stable home. There are a lot of Same-Sex couples that can provide that home as we have seen from what currently happens.

By: John

John — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 02:27:08 +0000

mark of Sydney, so indigenous people shouldn’t have children because their children will be taunted in school? what about hearing impaired people’s children? People who follow Islam? or what about people who are hippies and like to only eat vegan foods? should all these people not have children because they might be taunted at school by small minded other children? what about people with red hair genes? It’s parents responsibility to raise their children to be strong and be able to handle anything life throws at them. A child who’s never had to endure anything grows up to be a complainer who can’t get by in the real world.

By: John

John — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 02:22:06 +0000

a “conscience vote” on what is clearly in the best interests of the stability of children. Study after study has shown that adoption is a better option than fostering for many children as it provides security and stability (as well as legal rights). The ALP and Libs are completely Disgusting in allowing this to be decided on the “conscience” of their MPs. Both parties should be supporting this unequivically and taking disciplinary action on any member who votes against party lines. This is nothing but a hedged bet by both parties to win gay votes whilst not alienating conservative votes. You’ll get no thanks from me Ms Keneally, and Mr OFarrell isn’t any better.

By: Ron (Blue Mountains)

Ron (Blue Mountains) — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 02:10:05 +0000

Mark of Sydney,

We have to start somewhere. Once marriage equality and same-sex adoption become the norm, then teasing etc should fade away (mostly).

We have lots of same sex parents here in the Blue Mountains and I’m yet to hear of one problem at local schools affecting the children or parents. One male couple a few doors up the street from me just came home with their new baby and the neighbourhood welcomed them warmly.

By: mark of sydney

mark of sydney — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 01:48:31 +0000

It would be fantastic for same sex couples (Especially 2 men) to be able to have a child.But are there special schools in Australia like Overseas which are specifically for students of same sex parents to attend?
In a everyday school here in Australia you can guarantee that that child will have a “Miserable” childhood filled with teasing & tormenting by bully’s in school.Sniggering parents of other students and probably run out of town,A real nightmare for the child and its same sex parents.
Thankyou

By: Phil Scott

Phil Scott — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 01:31:39 +0000

Two men or two women in a committed relationship in a secular country should be allowed to nurture a child if they wish to. Religion actually has nothing to do with it.